California Governor Gavin Newsom has issued a powerful and personal condemnation of Stephen Miller, a former White House Deputy Chief of Staff under the Trump administration, defining his political influence with the words “cruelty and chaos.” In a wide-ranging interview on a podcast hosted by Gen Z political commentator Jack Cocchiarella, Newsom delved into what he perceives as the severe human cost of policies championed by Miller, while also offering a broader analysis of the future of the Republican party in a potential post-Trump era.

Newsom, a prominent Democrat and potential future presidential candidate, made it clear that his assessment of Miller was based on a public record of action rather than personal interaction. “I think there’s a cruelty to him,” the governor stated, admitting he did not know Miller personally but could analyze his impact from afar. He told Cocchiarella that he had “nothing good to say” about the controversial Trump ally, whom he has previously compared to the fictional villain Voldemort from the Harry Potter series.

The governor’s criticism centered on what he described as Miller’s persistent focus on immigration enforcement, particularly the ICE raids that resulted in the separation of families across the United States. Newsom painted a vivid picture of the consequences, stating, “Quite literally, people are disappearing.” He spoke of the lasting emotional trauma captured in recordings of these events. “The screams. You can’t unhear what you hear or see in these videos of moms that are losing family members. Those screams are real.”

To illustrate his point, Newsom shared two specific and affecting anecdotes. He recounted meeting a 16-year-old boy who was unable to make eye contact after both of his parents, who had worked packing vegetables for two decades, had “disappeared.” Placing the responsibility squarely on the former White House official, Newsom declared, “That’s Stephen Miller. That cruelty is… I feel that, man.”

He relayed a second story involving a 15-year-old boy with disabilities in Los Angeles. According to the governor, the boy reported that a border patrol agent had put a gun to his head while he was simply waiting for his sister to cross the street from his school. Again, Newsom attributed the ethos behind such an action to Miller’s influence. “That’s Stephen Miller,” he repeated. “So, spare me any niceties with respect to this guy. I have nothing good to say about him, period. I don’t know what his motivations are, but the one thing all his actions have in common is cruelty.” The Daily Beast noted in its original reporting that it had reached out to the White House for comment.

When the conversation shifted to Miller’s wife, Katie Miller, and her podcast which features a lineup of MAGA-aligned figures like House Speaker Mike Johnson and commentator Pete Hegseth, Newsom’s tone became more diplomatic. “I’ve seen a few appearances on the cable networks,” he said, but chose to “withhold” his detailed thoughts on her program, citing respect for the Miller family as his reason. He added, “I have a lot more energy that I need to put behind my strong opinions of Steven Miller.”

Beyond his specific critique of Miller, Governor Newsom offered a broader perspective on the future of the political movement that propelled Donald Trump to power. He argued that “Trumpism” is intrinsically tied to the former president and cannot exist as a standalone ideology. “There’s no Trumpism without Trump,” Newsom asserted. “It’s a cult of personality.”

He expressed skepticism that other Republican figures, such as Vice President JD Vance or Senator Marco Rubio, could successfully inherit and lead the movement. According to Newsom, they “can’t operate at that level like Trump.” He predicted failure in any attempt to maintain the coalition that Trump built. “Rubio can’t keep it together, Vance can’t keep it together,” he said, adding, “They’ll attempt to, perhaps, but they cannot keep this coalition together.”

Newsom characterized the entire movement as fundamentally transactional. “It’s the great grift. That’s all this is about,” he stated. “I mean, the level of corruption, the crony capitalism, the state capitalism, that’s what this is about.”

As evidence for his claim that the MAGA coalition is fragile, the governor pointed to recent and public disagreements among its proponents, specifically mentioning the infighting over the views of right-wing broadcasters Tucker Carlson and Ben Shapiro. “You’re seeing it corrode everywhere,” Newsom observed. “There’s no capacity for any of these other people to hold that together in my mind and estimation.” His comments frame a future where the Republican party faces significant internal challenges in defining its identity and leadership without its singular, dominant figurehead.